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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
What's the deal why 500 hp? Why are you targeting that number?
It's just a number that I tossed out there. Aim high; shoot low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
and 500hp just has a really nice sound to it.
Exactly! Actually; I thought about the current hp of a Coyote. I wouldn't want to lose to one. My ego would be shot. :cool:
 

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To resolve any belt slip concerns... i use grip tech pulleys with gates green belt, and they flatout work legit AF. i datalog my car ALOT, the boost curve holds much more stable even in high rpm low gear situations, i am 8 rib... but 6.87 lower fwiw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
Thanks for all of the advice. It helped me with my decision. Turbo it is.
 
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Thanks for all of the advice. It helped me with my decision. Turbo it is.
I had a 91 LX that I installed a built 331 and a Vortech V2SQ with an air to water aftercooler. Belt slip and belt alignment caused way more trouble than it was worth.
The ex made me sell that car, and after the divorce I bought a 93 LX and put an On3 system on it.
All the swearing, multiple trips to the parts store, and the On3 kit finally fit.
Slightly built 306 with a 76mm journal bearing turbo killed the super built 331 with the Vortech, hands down.
Torque was better, maintenance was easier, and at the end of the day, I enjoyed the turbo exponentially more.
I was always worried about the belt shredding and taking out my serpentine with it (which happened more than once.)
Got the turbo tuned and sorted out, set it and forget it. No worrying about belts, water in the aftercooler, etc.

Today I have a 98 Cobra that I'm rebuilding and I already have an MMR suspension package with a tubular K member (learned my lesson from before) and a Hellion single kit ready for when the motor is ready... The belt alone is enough for me to spend 50% more cash and take 100% longer time to sort out issues to get the turbo set up and leak free.

I might not sleep tonight thinking about belt issues now...
 
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I have never had a belt issue with my S/C. But then again it is not a centrifugal. I never liked that those type of S/C's typically have the belt drive in front of the stock drive belt for the accessories.
 

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I have never had a belt issue with my S/C. But then again it is not a centrifugal. I never liked that those type of S/C's typically have the belt drive in front of the stock drive belt for the accessories.
The early V2s had an alignment issue with the supercharger bracket. Eventually, it came out that you needed to put a washer behind one of the bolt holes to align properly. I slipped belts that would tear up serpentine belts when they flew off... Also had an issue with smog pumps seizing up when I pedaled the car, but that was a whole other nightmare to chase down.
That car ate a lot of belts.

I also liked the tunability of the turbo better as well. I realize you can put a BOV on a centri, and pulley it to make boost instantly off idle, and blow off when it hits the upper limit, but when I ran smaller pulleys on the Vortech, the car did not seem to rev as freely or as fast, and in my mind, that makes me think there was more parasitic loss. I could be way off... The turbo seemed to get into boost faster and the ramp to full boost seemed much more vertical than the centri. The old seat of the pants dyno favored the turbo heavily as well. And having an electronic boost controller was super rad. Nothing like being able to go from 3 psi to 17 psi with a push of a button. I had friends that drove the car that I would set them at a max of 5 psi since I didn't want it wrapped around a tree
 

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There was an article years ago in MMFF about it.

EDIT: I found it!!


My search turned this up too. It's GM but the principle is the same.

Reading that all I could think was how silly that owner must feel now if that was a legit Saleen SC. I think they made 12 in ‘90, I bet that’s a $70k+ car today.
 

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Exactly! Actually; I thought about the current hp of a Coyote. I wouldn't want to lose to one. My ego would be shot. :cool:
I agree about doing the turbo if it's workable for the car etc.

FYI though, the old Ford 351C-4V engines can make the same power as a Coyote engine, at almost the same rpm's. You can build a 351 4-barrel with stock heads to shift around 7k, and make nearly 500rwhp. It's not the same parts combo people do with all the 302/347/351/408's today. But the heads flow unported the same amount as $1800 new aftermarket Windsor heads, and can be ported to gain 75-100+cfm more. The heads are a project though, they have to be treated like a bare head. You have to replace everything, the valves, seats, guides, and decide on rockers like any pedestal head. The cost to cut the pedestals has gone up, $350+ the last I saw. The intake you have to hunt around for, a Parker Funnelweb is the hot ticket. But there are 2-3 other good intakes. Put $2000 into heads, make it roller cam/lifters, bush the lifter bores, install a few oil restrictors in galley holes, and shift it at 7k. Watch the 5.0 Mustangs drool, how'd you do that with that 45 year old engine?

BTW, here's a link to a 10k+ rpm Clevor racing engine, 3HP/CI power. It uses Ford D3 Cleveland racing heads; This N/A 10,000-Plus-RPM Small-Block Ford Makes 3 Horsepower/Cube
 
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Been looking at some my self for my 95. I would really like to go procharger due to the intercooler but it’s significantly more expensive than vortech. D1SC stage 2 is about 6k!
AFM has a vortech V3 tuner kit with their powerpipe for under $3400, self libricated head unit, looks like a really simple install but it’s non intercooled. I don’t see a problem hitting 500rwp with your combo, you might just have to rev it higher or get a smaller pulley but you definitely won’t get that torque that a turbo offers.
under $3400? Where?

Edit: found it I was thinking of 99+
 

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Discussion Starter · #74 ·
I agree about doing the turbo if it's workable for the car etc.

FYI though, the old Ford 351C-4V engines can make the same power as a Coyote engine, at almost the same rpm's. You can build a 351 4-barrel with stock heads to shift around 7k, and make nearly 500rwhp. It's not the same parts combo people do with all the 302/347/351/408's today. But the heads flow unported the same amount as $1800 new aftermarket Windsor heads, and can be ported to gain 75-100+cfm more. The heads are a project though, they have to be treated like a bare head. You have to replace everything, the valves, seats, guides, and decide on rockers like any pedestal head. The cost to cut the pedestals has gone up, $350+ the last I saw. The intake you have to hunt around for, a Parker Funnelweb is the hot ticket. But there are 2-3 other good intakes. Put $2000 into heads, make it roller cam/lifters, bush the lifter bores, install a few oil restrictors in galley holes, and shift it at 7k. Watch the 5.0 Mustangs drool, how'd you do that with that 45 year old engine?

BTW, here's a link to a 10k+ rpm Clevor racing engine, 3HP/CI power. It uses Ford D3 Cleveland racing heads; This N/A 10,000-Plus-RPM Small-Block Ford Makes 3 Horsepower/Cube
I love n/a power but a 351 build is costly compared to a turbo kit. I really considered a 351 going into this project. I'm limited to around 10:1cr due to our poor pump gas. E85 is inconvenient here due to it not being available at the pump. There's only a hand full of places supplying it.
With a turbo; I can cruise around like a stock car with great manners and decent mileage. The engine doesn't have to be high strung with a turbo. I finally found a kit that will work with the AC, which is rare for a '94-'95 car. Most all turbo kits are aimed towards Foxes.
 
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Discussion Starter · #76 ·

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Discussion Starter · #78 ·
For $1200 for an A2A intercooler and pipes kit, couldn't you fab up short pipes straight to an A2W intercooler mounted onto a lower EFI intake? Those IC's for a Lightning or Cobra look to cost $750 or so, how much would a plenum be to mount it right over the intake?
I decided to stay with my original plan of running a turbo with my Promaxx heads and Performer RPM upper and lower. When I found the CG Fab kit; I knew that's exactly what I wanted. Caleb has a spotless rep with the turbo crowd and his kits don't require a sawzall and welder to install. Lol. I can keep my AC! Win/Win!!!! :)

I had the A2W setup you mention on my Roush Blackjack. It worked decent enough but heat soaked in the Phoenix summers.
 

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I can imagine that. An IC system needs very good air flow, especially at slow speeds. I had the idea of routing the IC coolant through a large reservoir tank, with an evaporator with AC freon going through it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
I can imagine that. An IC system needs very good air flow, especially at slow speeds. I had the idea of routing the IC coolant through a large reservoir tank, with an evaporator with AC freon going through it.
https://killerchiller.com/
Also; the Dodge Hellcat uses the ac to cool the intake charge.
 
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