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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone,

I've got a car that I can't enjoy too much because it is still running too warm for my comfort. The car is a stock block 347 with fully forged internals, AFR 185 Renegade heads, Anderson B41 Cam, RPM II intake and 44lb injectors. The car was a 5-speed, but I swapped it for a SilverFox 4R and Dirty Dog converter. Running 3.73 gears in the rear and I have a 3 core radiator with a Coutour dual fan setup. I had the car tuned by a very reputable tuner and it made 411hp/529tq to the wheels with the trans not locked up. I originally built the motor with a 180° thermostat and it was running pretty warm. The tuner ensure that it never reached over 200° when they tuned it back in October. I talked to the tuner and he suggested running a 160° thermostat, so installed one of those. Now it's been running around 195° just driving around but it does creep up to the 210° mark and that's a little too warm for my comfort. Anyone have any ideas of what else could be going on or other ideas? I'm thinking of swapping my stock fan back over and seeing if it can keep up with the heat or not.

Thanks!
 

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First of all, installing a 160 degree t-stat was a waste of time and money.
You should check your fan controller and the fans to make certain they are getting full voltage. You might also have one or both fan motors not pulling as much air as they should due to age...especially if they came out of a junkyard. I had to replace the motor for my Mark VIII fan and the new motor pulled loads more air than the worn out factory one.
 

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Running around 210* is just fine. These cars along with all newer cars run in that range or hotter for efficiency and emissions. The days of 160* T-stats and 180* operating temperatures went out the window decades ago. By the way; your tuner is dead wrong and should get out of the business. Talk to Willie at Dirty Dirty Racing or Decipha and share your story with them.
For reference; my 347 ran around 210* in Phoenix with the AC running. I went with a dual row radiator with 1" tubes, high flow water pump, high flow 195* t-stat and Contour fans coming on at lower temps and regulated by the tune.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
First of all, installing a 160 degree t-stat was a waste of time and money.
You should check your fan controller and the fans to make certain they are getting full voltage. You might also have one or both fan motors not pulling as much air as they should due to age...especially if they came out of a junkyard. I had to replace the motor for my Mark VIII fan and the new motor pulled loads more air than the worn out factory one.
The fan controller and voltage are working as they should. The fans were a new unit when installed. They are pulling the correct direction and the flow isn’t inhibited by anything up front. Thanks for the reply.


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Discussion Starter #5
Running around 210* is just fine. These cars along with all newer cars run in that range or hotter for efficiency and emissions. The days of 160* T-stats and 180* operating temperatures went out the window decades ago. By the way; your tuner is dead wrong and should get out of the business. Talk to Willie at Dirty Dirty Racing or Decipha and share your story with them.
For reference; my 347 ran around 210* in Phoenix with the AC running. I went with a dual row radiator with 1" tubes, high flow water pump, high flow 195* t-stat and Contour fans coming on at lower temps and regulated by the tune.
Good to know. Thanks for the experiences of your own personal car. This is the first one that I’ve built so I was used to running mild build 302’s in foxes...even in my nitrous coupe they didn’t get that high unless I was running on nitrous for more than 10 seconds.


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Good to know. Thanks for the experiences of your own personal car. This is the first one that I’ve built so I was used to running mild build 302’s in foxes...even in my nitrous coupe they didn’t get that high unless I was running on nitrous for more than 10 seconds.


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I hear you. It seems that every car and every engine runs differently as far as temps go. I'm at the extreme end of the spectrum.
 
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91 GT, 302 with twisted wedge heads, XE270HR-12 cam, track heat intake, 30 lb injectors
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Do you know if your gauge is accurate? Single wire short sweep electric gauges are notorious for being inaccurate due to using the engine as the grounding point.

Does it overheat in stop & go traffic, at speed, or both? Only at speed pushes fan problems down the list of possibilities. Make sure you have a front air dam to improve airflow on the highway. Only in stop & go indicates it could be your fan or fan controls. Overheating all the time could be a great number of things like fouled / plugged radiator or cooling passages, poor coolant flow from a "vapor locked" system / collapsed lower radiator hose / incorrectly installed or functioning thermostat / poorly functioning water pump / localized boiling coolant pockets from lack of system pressure.

You could check for and burp any trapped air out of the coolant system. That can cause poor coolant flow and you might even be able to shake the upper radiator hose and hear the air/coolant sloshing around after the car has been sitting for a few hours since that's the high point.

Try measuring the temperature difference between the upper and lower radiator hose at operating temperature. Near equal temperatures indicates poor heat rejection through the radiator from either poor air flow, poor radiator function, or both. 50+ degrees F indicates poor coolant flow (or a massively oversized radiator / fan, which is unlikely due to size constraints). You could also check flow by leaving your radiator cap off when you're burping the system and looking for coolant flow when your thermostat opens up. If you see lots of bubbles it could be a head gasket.

It would also be a good idea to pressure test your coolant system, as an inability to create pressure would hurt cooling.
 

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Do you know if your gauge is accurate? Single wire short sweep electric gauges are notorious for being inaccurate due to using the engine as the grounding point.

Does it overheat in stop & go traffic, at speed, or both? Only at speed pushes fan problems down the list of possibilities. Make sure you have a front air dam to improve airflow on the highway. Only in stop & go indicates it could be your fan or fan controls. Overheating all the time could be a great number of things like fouled / plugged radiator or cooling passages, poor coolant flow from a "vapor locked" system / collapsed lower radiator hose / incorrectly installed or functioning thermostat / poorly functioning water pump / localized boiling coolant pockets from lack of system pressure.

You could check for and burp any trapped air out of the coolant system. That can cause poor coolant flow and you might even be able to shake the upper radiator hose and hear the air/coolant sloshing around after the car has been sitting for a few hours since that's the high point.

Try measuring the temperature difference between the upper and lower radiator hose at operating temperature. Near equal temperatures indicates poor heat rejection through the radiator from either poor air flow, poor radiator function, or both. 50+ degrees F indicates poor coolant flow (or a massively oversized radiator / fan, which is unlikely due to size constraints). You could also check flow by leaving your radiator cap off when you're burping the system and looking for coolant flow when your thermostat opens up. If you see lots of bubbles it could be a head gasket.

It would also be a good idea to pressure test your coolant system, as an inability to create pressure would hurt cooling.
Great post, but...The OP hasn't really presented any evidence that his engine is actually overheating.
210° operating temps are just fine. Ford programs the stock fan in SN95's to come on at low speed at a much higher temp than that.
 

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Does the fan stay on all the time? Is the AC on?
A contour fan should be able to keep it at 180 or 190 all the time if continuously running, I would think.

Unless your tuner gave you multiple tunes, there are parameters that depend on temp so there is that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Do you know if your gauge is accurate? Single wire short sweep electric gauges are notorious for being inaccurate due to using the engine as the grounding point.

Does it overheat in stop & go traffic, at speed, or both? Only at speed pushes fan problems down the list of possibilities. Make sure you have a front air dam to improve airflow on the highway. Only in stop & go indicates it could be your fan or fan controls. Overheating all the time could be a great number of things like fouled / plugged radiator or cooling passages, poor coolant flow from a "vapor locked" system / collapsed lower radiator hose / incorrectly installed or functioning thermostat / poorly functioning water pump / localized boiling coolant pockets from lack of system pressure.

You could check for and burp any trapped air out of the coolant system. That can cause poor coolant flow and you might even be able to shake the upper radiator hose and hear the air/coolant sloshing around after the car has been sitting for a few hours since that's the high point.

Try measuring the temperature difference between the upper and lower radiator hose at operating temperature. Near equal temperatures indicates poor heat rejection through the radiator from either poor air flow, poor radiator function, or both. 50+ degrees F indicates poor coolant flow (or a massively oversized radiator / fan, which is unlikely due to size constraints). You could also check flow by leaving your radiator cap off when you're burping the system and looking for coolant flow when your thermostat opens up. If you see lots of bubbles it could be a head gasket.

It would also be a good idea to pressure test your coolant system, as an inability to create pressure would hurt cooling.
So, to answer a few questions that have arose. The gauge that I’m using is actually the temp reading Fromm inside TunerStudio. I’m running the PimpXS from Stinger Performance. The build has around 100 miles on it. I’m also running Evans coolant. I never said it was over heating....only that it was running warmer than I was comfortable with. The stop and go traffic doesn’t have much effect on the temps and my air dam is worn for an 87 so that might not be letting enough air up into the radiator. I just replaced the spark plugs thinking they could be fouled as well...no change. I’ve also used my temp gun to measure temps around the motor and they don’t read more than 185 anywhere...including at the water pump. I’ll see if I can work out any air bubbles that may still be in there. I doubt the head gasket is the issue since it’s a new build. I’ll also try to pressure test the system as well.


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Discussion Starter #12
Does the fan stay on all the time? Is the AC on?
A contour fan should be able to keep it at 180 or 190 all the time if continuously running, I would think.

Unless your tuner gave you multiple tunes, there are parameters that depend on temp so there is that.
No, I don’t have the AC recharged yet because of the heating concerns I was having. I only have one safe tune for the car but those temps didn’t seem to bother the tuner.


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Does the fan stay on all the time? Is the AC on?
A contour fan should be able to keep it at 180 or 190 all the time if continuously running, I would think.

Unless your tuner gave you multiple tunes, there are parameters that depend on temp so there is that.
It depends on ambient temps in his area. My Contour fans came on at around 190°. I never used the low speed. Both fans were always running full boar. I saw 210° often with ac on, but I'm in Phoenix. I'm guessing the OP has a large tranny cooler up front along with a converter building some heat?

To the OP...that air dam makes a difference. Is the radiator sealed on the sides to direct air through the radiator and not around? I've never used the Evan's coolant. I run 70% water and 30% coolant with a bottle of Water Wetter.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It depends on ambient temps in his area. My Contour fans came on at around 190°. I never used the low speed. Both fans were always running full boar. I saw 210° often with ac on, but I'm in Phoenix. I'm guessing the OP has a large tranny cooler up front along with a converter building some heat?

To the OP...that air dam makes a difference. Is the radiator sealed on the sides to direct air through the radiator and not around? I've never used the Evan's coolant. I run 70% water and 30% coolant with a bottle of Water Wetter.
The ambient temp yesterday was 84 degrees. I’ll look at the air dam again and if it needs to be replaced then I’ll do so. Thanks for the help!!


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Is the engine n/a or boosted? That tq number suggest boost.
What is initial timing with spout out?
What the compression ratio of the engine?
Pump gas?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Is the engine n/a or boosted? That tq number suggest boost.
What is initial timing with spout out?
What the compression ratio of the engine?
Pump gas?
Yes, it’s Vortech supercharged. I’ve not looked at the timing table but I know it’s set to 10 BDC before any timing is done with the ECU. Compression ratio is around 9.8:1 and it’s on ethanol free pump 93.


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Intercooler?
 

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Great post, but...The OP hasn't really presented any evidence that his engine is actually overheating.
210° operating temps are just fine. Ford programs the stock fan in SN95's to come on at low speed at a much higher temp than that.
I agree, 210 is ok to run at without risking damage and I shouldn't have said the o-word haha. I like to stay below 190 where my EEC-IV starts to pull timing. I don't know when/if OP's aftermarket ECU pulls timing with high coolant temperature or if a few degrees of total timing is even noticable.

Also OP, if using an external trans cooler and radiator trans cooler, routing the transmission coolant to the external cooler first will help reject more BTUs through the external cooler instead of into the engine coolant. It may not be enough to be noticable but it will help.
 
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