The update so far, is still no cause for failure. Some kinda of pressure only on the back side of the thrust bearing (TC clearance? something internal to the engine?) I dont know. The second oil report states coolant contamination... how could that be from a thrust bearing being pushed from the trans/tc? or would all that bearing material blow out the head gasket? or some seal?
MMR says it was the trans side of the thrust bearing only worn (which then those pieces chewed up the other bearings).
Trans/TC/Flexplate checked out fine. Only thing Im thinking is the TC clearance was too tight on install?
CHP said the TC clearance… had about .080-.100” installed.
Transmission Builder - That’s tight for sure. But with a converter that has a strong balloon plate, that shouldn’t be much to worry about. Specifically, if the converter builder found nothing wrong, as long as the converter spins freely in the pilot then you should be ok unless the converter balloons. With the converter being ok, how could it be anything on the other side of it? The converter sits in the middle and would certainly show at least something. So would the flexplate. But, again, the transmission can’t do that.
Torque Converter Builder - .100 will do, but you should be seeing between .150-.180. I build all AODE/4R70W to stock heights. A thicker flex plate my be the problem, but if you don't rev over 7500 rpm, it will be fine.
Mini update for anyone following. Ive got a stock used 90k mile motor dropped in, with the same trans, same tune, same torque converter, same fuel injectors/coils, same oil cooler, I didnt use the same upgraded flexplate.. I went with the OEM stock one at the recommendation of ArtCarrs Transmission that inspected the flexplates and trans. Just no benefit for my use case. I did since i had so much time on my hands, redo all the fuel injector and sparkplug connectors on the engine wiring harness .
No overheating on the freeway on a cold night the like the custom shortblock did. Only 100 miles in but it feels stronger then the racing engine I had built. See if I can magically kill the thrust bearing with all my powers combined. She rips through 2nd gear, feels like a beast. Im pretty convinced it was something with the build of that short block, but time will tell.
Nice to hear your back on the road. If you take your belt off and give the crank a good tug front to back you will know if you still have an issue. 100 miles would be lots of time, as in my experience the thrust gets ripped thru really fast if theres an issue. I'm feeling your pain.
Thanks Dono2, 150-200 miles almost now, and these are extremely hard miles. Im spinning shifting, holding gears. Which I never did at all with the other engine because of the break in period. I completely babied and never went over 4k with the racing shortblock.
i can do 80mph at night for unlimited time and the car hovers at 190~ degrees (that's with aggressive driving/pulls) with the custom racing shortblock it was running hot within 15~ minutes of freeway driving.
Something was off internally, or maybe with the timing/assembly of the engine. who knows.
CHP/CPRE had a bunch of changes, tobias quit, nathan bush is the "new" owner/manager.
Someone reached out to me over a month ago, and let me know that CHP had a new owner doing facebook live posts or something. New owner "Nate". I thought what the hell its worth asking this new owner if I could get my own parts returned ha ($1k~ in billet timing guides, timing chains, tensioners, arp mains/head/side bolts etc..). After two bizarre calls with Nate, who insisted integrity is what everything is about and hes all about integrity etc.. he was going to return my parts (i offered to pay shipping, he declined and said they would take care of it). Month later, no parts returned, no communications returned.
It turns out Martin @CHP and CPRE is a nitrous kingpin for illegal drug use an ex-employees detailed reply (CHP/CPR 347 (LONG)) and they were raided by the FEDS years ago.
I guess you can safely say the issue was in the short block or flex plate. I think we can all be pretty comfortable it was a lack of oiling in the short block for some reason.
Thanks for the info on CHP
I have an 04 GT with a KB 2.6 on it, and thru my 5.0 pushrod engine experiences, and your 4.6 experiences I afraid to pull the motor and swap to H beam rods and forged pistons. If I'm doing that, I might as well do more upgrades like heads.
My fear is that I end up with something like you experienced, or I experienced. Its expensive to do this stuff to start with, then it gets absolutely outrageously expensive trying to fix motors that keep trashing themselves.
My instincts tell me to be happy with my powder motor and don't push my luck.
yea for $600 i can get used stock motors all day and beat the hell out of them.
For $10,000k I didnt even get out of the break in period. Though I think it was just ****ty people/company. Try and get lined up with a good reference from someone recently that had the same motor or similar.
Do not, not modify because of ****ty people like CHP/CPRE.
My other buddy just put a KB on his 4.6 2v. you been running that 04 for years? what are your IATs in normal driving/street and super hot days? Coolant temps?
Iv'e owned it for just over a year now. In spring the KB 2.6 and terminator hood went on. Needed the extra clearance for the KB.
At idle and very slow moving traffic, the iat's climb pretty high. I think its because the boosted, heated air just keeps getting recirculated heating up more each time. As soon as I start driving at any reasonable speed, iat's drop significantly. I still ended up playing with the table that pulls timing with high iat's so it wouldn't pull so much timing so quickly at 150 degree's and up. The factory table is super agressive, and I don't think it needs to be.
I bought what I thought was a high flow, lower temp thermostat off rock auto, but I think its a piece of crap as my coolant temps are rock steady at 200ish degree's. I have tried playing with coolant fan on/off temps and there is no difference in coolant temp.
On my list is a AFCO heat exchanger that I will wire my own fan(s?) in to. also, a new thermostat like the Reische Performance Ford-4S or Mishimoto MIO-MMTS-MUS-96 .
I currently have a factory cobra intake tube, and want to change it out for the JLT series 2 intake. I think this stuff will allow me to work the timing a bit more. I may look at w/m injection to try to get the iat's down even more, then add more boost. I think the powder bottom ends on these motors can do ok if you stay well away from the knock threshold. If I scatter the motor next year then there will be no one to blame but myself and I'll be looking for another motor. It's just too bat these motors aren't as plentiful up where I am. I'd love to even get my hands on an explorer 4.6 motor(aluminum wap) and start on it in case I scatter mine all over the road.
I want to try a different lower temp thermostat. I agree, 200 isn't high, unless your running a positive displacement blower. Everything possible needs to be done to lower iat's. That's why Kenne Bell includes a lower temp thermostat in their 'Kit's'. I bought my KB used, and the 2.6 never did come as a full kit anyway.
I'm shooting for more of a 190 coolant temp. Currently, the thermostat I have seems to regulate the coolant temp perfectly at 200. It doesn't matter if it's wot, non wot, driving on the highway, etc. Temp stays at 200. I'm going to give a different thermostat a try.
And, yes, 150 iat's are high. I get down to 120-130 ish at wot, but positive displacement blowers make heat (and a lot of it) when they keep recycling (and re-boosting) already heated air.
On a Kenne Bell, its mounted right on top of the intake. I have never seen one that has a air/air intercooler just because it would create all kinds of issues moving the boosted air away from the top of the motor to the front, then back to the intake. I have seen other positive displacement blowers mounted off to the side of the motor, and they could have an air/air cooler quite a bit easier.
You are right, iat's are high. I'm of the opinion I need to do everything possible to keep them as low as possible.
A lower temp thermostat like 180 and some fans that can bring the temps down to 185-190~ should get your coolant temp where you want.
your thermostat being lower now. already is fully open by 200. so the radiator and fan are doing the best they can. a lower thermostat is not to lower your coolant temps at all (most people seem to think it does).
Its there to keep your engine warm before the radiator comes in play. Your not gaining more cooling by it opening sooner by any means. Your making it harder for the engine to come up to temp (but it will eventually come up to temp reguardless) with a 140degree thermostat or 192 stock.
I would stop looking at the T-stat and start looking at a dual/triple pass dual row radiator and/or some more CFM flowing fans on the current rad.
I guess we are going to find out.
All my logs tell me the thermostat is keeping the coolant temps at approx 200. I'm going to try it. I do not agree that the cooling system can't keep up. It was 41 degree's on the drive to work this morning and the coolant temp settled on around 200. Even if its 90 degree's, the coolant temp settles on approx 200. Its not the coolant system that can't keep up.
There is most likely a reason why Kenne Bell and all their testing went with a lower temp thermostat. I'm going to go with their testing results and recommendations.
The whole purpose of me trying to lower iat's is so that I can work the timing a bit more. I probably won't get to the thermostat till spring at this point. I'll have the winter to get the AFCO heat exchanger and hopefully a fan or two to strap to it.
I completely agree about iat's in stop and go traffic not being an issue. I couldn't care less. I would like to keep the intercooler coolant as cool as possible so that when the throttle gets hit the coolant can deal with the hot air better when it matters.
Anyway, good discussion and I'm as curious as anyone to see how well I can bring down my iat's. I may very well go with water/meth also to lower iat's more. I'd rather put the money in to stuff like this than the risks of a forged bottom end install going horribly wrong. Although, I could end up trashing a motor and having to do something anyway. these are the risks. lol.
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