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In my opinion (For what its worth) that cylinder wear could easily just be from the crank being pushed back and the pistons no longer being centered in the bore.
My cylinders looked like that each time my thrust went out, and I know it wasn't from dumping fuel.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Yep, Im not sure this dumping of fuel wasn't just the engine builders being malicious (cause the plug was perfect/new just before its last drive, I had no misfires, no CEL, no smoke). I did smell fuel in my throttle body when i removed it, and wondered how gas would get up there, the FPS/FPR would be the only way. It could of just failed or been messed with. Ill get that off and test that on lunch today.

Do you see nothing wrong with all that oil carbon on the top of the piston? why/how is so much oil getting on top of the pistons. I have a picture of my stock pistons with 150-200k miles on them and they dont look near that bad.
 

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The pistons don't look that bad to me. Iv'e seen serious carbon buildup on some pistons in the past. Enough so that it would affect compression in a big way.

Maybe I'm missing real buildup looking at those pictures, but all I see is a thin coating of black. That's not unusual.
When I added water/meth my pistons started staying nice and clean. I must be steam cleaning them every time I go in to boost, lol.
 

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Im not sure about the oil on top of the piston. I wasn't sure what that was. I thought maybe the lower intake was pulled off and something dumped on top of the piston(s).
If that wasn't it, it pretty much has to be valve guide seals, or some kind of a pcv issue. What does the pcv system look like? If its messy, it could be from blowby since the pistons are not square in the bore anymore.
 

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Pull the vac line off, go turn the key switch to on.....dont start. You just want the pump to prime the fuel rails. Any fuel passing through is not good.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
I would try that, if the battery wasnt dead after i got it back from the engine shop, not sure if they left a light on or something, the battery was just tested the day before the car had its last drive.

The FPS is holding vacuum, no leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Just got the engine pulled, less then 3 hours, amazing.

Nothing standing out to me. One thing they noticed is the oil filter on it right now had no oil in it (seems the engine shop left some other filter on the car (maybe after running or draining the oil on the car).

Ill include some phots here for anyone else, The torque converter was fully seated/pushed back it seems.
I dont see any wear/markings on the torque converter crankshaft side nub, or inside the crankshaft hold it goes in.


You can see the flex plate marks, and marks on the metal gasket the flexplate was tapping when the crank was moving.
1054255


1054256


The torque converter shaft to trans seems to have some wear/marks, possibly from the crank/flexplate moving everything off balance... not sure. Mailed back to Andre for tear down and inspection.
1054257
 

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Yep, Im not sure this dumping of fuel wasn't just the engine builders being malicious (cause the plug was perfect/new just before its last drive, I had no misfires, no CEL, no smoke). I did smell fuel in my throttle body when i removed it, and wondered how gas would get up there, the FPS/FPR would be the only way. It could of just failed or been messed with. Ill get that off and test that on lunch today.

Do you see nothing wrong with all that oil carbon on the top of the piston? why/how is so much oil getting on top of the pistons. I have a picture of my stock pistons with 150-200k miles on them and they dont look near that bad.
That excess fuel in the oil and the new clean filter on the engine seems odd to me.

Also looking at the videos the oil on the tops of the pistons doesn't seem to be black like you had stated. Looking at the the carbon build up at the top of the one cylinder and the look of the valves to me It appears to have way more than just 1,000 break-in miles on it?

At this point its all speculation untill you open the engine up and see what is going on.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

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So they took the original filter with all the metal shavings in it, and put on a different one so you wouldn't have any evidence..
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Yea that seems odd and stands out for sure. Barely 1k miles on the car, no crazy driving, the plugs looked new 1k miles in. I speculate there was some oiling issue from the start, new oil pump failure, pickup tube issues, or

I suspect my valve covers were not hot tanked (I had sanded and painted them tons)... when I brought all the parts in, The engine shop owner said well that paint wont hold up in the hot tanks, I let him know i could give two ****s about the paint, and only cared about the motor, function over design. To hot tank them as much as needed, blast them anything.... but the paint looked identical to when i gve it to them, they were actually quite dirty, when I was taking pictures on my pickup day and posting them online/chats people were saying how dirty the motor looked (valve covers specially)... and were surprised a brand new build/engine was not even wiped down.

Its going to go to MMR for tear down, diagnosis and figure out what it will cost to try again. . Trying to work all that out now.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Engine is dropped off at MMR for teardown/analysis. They removed the flex plate and gave it to me.

I had them side by side, noticed they were different heights... I called the flexplate company, talked to him for a bit, I just emailed him the pictures Im posting below.

It seems to be the spacing with this new flexplate is completely different (would it cause any issues Im not sure)... but its just something Im finding and throwing out there. I remember noticing the difference (but not measuring when I first received it). I called the company, verified the part number for my engine/application way before engine install.. and while on the phone we made sure the TC lined up properly. no issues. Its the same one the engine builders sell, same one all the crown vic/mustang guys use.I only got the flexplate at the recommendation of the engine builders/installers as the OEM one is known to grenade they said.

1054359



OEM FLEXPLATE
1054360


PRW Flex plate https://www.americanmuscle.com/sr-flexplate-6bolt.html
1054361


1054362
 

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Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
so Im 99% sure the flex plate is the issue here. I think the engine builders/installers should of caught it or known some how (cause the TC spacing would of been off).

When I received it a month or so before engine instalI. I called the PRW company verified part number was right for my applications. Was looking up the model number, I saw the flexplate on the engine builders own site and thought nothing of it. Neither of the sites mention DOHC at all. https://www.coasthigh.com/product-p/prw-1828110.htm

I talked to PRW again today and he verified again its the right part etc.. hes never had that issue.. but then I start looking more and find out the two parts below. Waiting to see what PRW says, but pretty sure thats the issue, caused the TC to push on the crank.

American muscle has it listed to fit (96-98 GT; Late 01-10 GT)
https://www.americanmuscle.com/sr-flexplate-6bolt.html

However they sent me this one, which is for a DOHC:
https://store.prw-usa.com/1828110-modular-ford-4-6-liter-dohc-1996-2004-neutral-balance-164-teeth-6-bolt/

When I need this one:
https://store.prw-usa.com/1828100-modular-ford-4-6-liter-1996-2004-neutral-balance-164-teeth-6-bolt/

If that is correct, then the engine builders probably built it right, but an issue with their install and with their customer service, they would never pull the motor, we could not get anywhere.

Ill run this by MMR also next week. Waiting on a reply from PRW also.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
PRW the flexplate company got back to me and my torque converter builder, both dont believe the flexplate had anything to do with anything here. The Torque Converter was opened/inspected and had no issues, no balloning or differences in any measurements.

I also got my blackstone labs report for the 210 mile oil change (oil from out the filter that was pulled). Their Comments here:
"Thanks for the info. Metals are starting off high, but that's typical for a first oil change due to the effects of the new parts undergoing break-in. The excess metal should wash out over the next few oil changes, and while the numbers for your custom engine may never read exactly like the averages, we should still see trends eventually stabilize. Silicon should shape up as well, as it's mostly from harmless sealers used during assembly. The viscosity ended up a touch high for a 5W/20, but that's not a big deal. No fuel or water contamination was found. Okay, so far!"
 

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The transmission is always the problem when a thrust bearing is wiped out. Whether it's a parts issue, install issue etc, it's always trans related. You could run an engine on a dyno for 100 years and never hurt the thrust, until you bolt the trans on.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
That may be for the most part, but its not always. That Engine on the dyno could have oil pressure issues, wrong clearances, install issues (the same as a trans could). I do believe my two stock motors (even one with a blow head gasket) on an engine dyno would of ran forever, this custom built one I dont believe so .

Once the engine is tore down, we can see where/what sides the thrust bearings (and other bearings) are worn and keep working the problem.

This transmission worked in two other motors for 5 years. Ive never heard of a thrust bearing in my life. Theres nothing this transmission can magically do to make more pressure (except a kinked cooler to trans line, which I dont have). I've talked in depth with the transmission builder, who has nothing to loose with my 5 year old transmission to just tell me its the trans, but nothing is pointing to the trans. Even if the EPC inside the trans failed theres not enough pressure to push the TC against the crank. The trans had zero issues with shifting, running, or anything. Further more, Ive reached out to nearly every thrust bearing poster on multiple forums (more specifically with the 4R70W trans I have, and no one has had a 4RXXX trans cause any issues that I've verified.

Though it may be the trans, I dont believe it currently. I will have everything tested before even attempting to try again.
 

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I just noticed this is a mod motor, I remember when you posted in the pushrod section so assumed it was a pushrod motor, now I see its a mod. In a pushrod motor, the vertical faces of the thrust are not pressure fed, and every single time the thrust is hurt its the vertical face that is facing the transmission. Its never the face that is facing the radiator. The crank is always pushed forward, never pulled backwards towards the firewall. Thus without a transmission these engines will never hurt a thrust bearing since there is no load on the vertical thrust faces, until there is a transmission installed. My findings are based on 20 years of building 100-150 of these engines per year.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Awesome to have your knowledge/time/reply, thank you strokeme. Your talking in regards to the push rod motors right? I might of posted in a push motor section before, I replied to nearly every thrust bearing, new engine failure post out there. Trying to gather as much information and direction as I can.

Ive heard its everything's fault but the motor (the trans pressure, TC install/spacing, flexplate, fuel in oil) which it may be. Only thing left is to see what the inside of the engine looks like, and pressure test the trans. Everything else has been verified fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Just a little update, MMR got the engine tore down. Heres a short description of the internals.

We did get the engine apart yesterday. It is on pretty bad shape. It has spun a few rod bearings and has eaten the crankshaft up pretty good. The main bearings are also in really bad shape. It will need a crankshaft and a set of rods to go back together.
 
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