[wildstreet22]

How difficult is it to remove/clean/replace the Front Pump on an AOD transmission?
any special tools required?

 

[gork1rogues]

First off are you doing this with the tranny in the car? Front pump removal is as simple as removal the bolts around the perimeter of the pump. Locating the two holes opposite of eachother that are threaded on the pump itself, then sticking short pieces of metal dowel or whatever you want to fit in there (i discourage bits). Then take your starter bolts and tighten them into the holes on the pump, alternate tightening them and it will pull itself out. The purpose of the metal pieces is for the bolts to have something to force themselves against to pull out on the pump so the pieces must be long enough to sit inside of the pump threads also. You can also use a slidehammer but the above method always works.

If you are doing this in the car you must be very very careful to not pull the internals out any with the pump. If you do the torrington bearing for the forward drum hub likes to fall out and then you will have some serious issues if you bolt it back together like this.

If it were me I would be doing it outside of the car and at the minimum replace the overdrive band... but I am not aware of the details of your situation or what mechanical abilities you posses. If you consider doing this I would recommend picking up an ATSG guide from your local tranny shop in order to get a better idea of what is going on. Myself and others could try and guide you along on here, but nothing is like having the book in front of you next to the transmission.

Make for certain that you replace all 3 seals on the pump. Converter...paper...o-ring.

 

[SilverFoxbody]

I use the pull method most of the time.....home made slide hammer with a long peice of all thread and a slidding handle.

If you are good (or have knowledge about the aod) just tip the tran on it's bell with a chunk on 2x4 under the input shaft and whack the bell housing with a mallet.....or drop it slightely on the floor.....this is the "remans" or "core guys" defualt choice......as they don't care about putting it together again.

 

[MYLITTLEHO]

As gork1rogues said.. locate the holes that are threaded and insert the starter bolts in those holes..

here is my home made puller using the starter bolts, a piece of punched metal strapping, and a autozone loan-a-tool slide hammer. A few whacks on one side.. move it to the other and then a few whacks on the other side and it'll pop right off...

 

[wildstreet22]

what I have is a fully prepped AOD... I used this trans with my old engine setup and it worked flawlessly.
I have put together a new combination.. the tranny sat for 4 years in the corner of the garage..
I had the converter frestalled for the new cam/combination..it was supposed to be around 3500-4000 rpm stall. non-lockup.
After putting everything together, the stall was more like 5200rpm..
They suggested I check my fluid cooler lines and front fluid cooler... The transmission is supposed to pump 1 qt, in every 20 secs. and 1 qt out ev. 20 secs......
This is where I found a problem...it would pump 1 qt into the cooler as was designed...but would only pump out a cup or so.....so there was a blockage..
This is what I was told caused pressure on the converter and made my stall higher..
I bypassed the cooler to see if that helped but it didnt,,the stall was still 5000+..I reveresed the lines going into the cooler..and put them in to out and out to in....then the trans would pump 1 qt in and 3/4 qt out every 20 sec..
I pulled the trans and sent the converter and valve body off.
They said the converter looked good, very good.
When I inspected everything..I noticed my JW flexplate had 4 dimples pulled on it where the converter bolts to it..kinda like the converter was pulling back into the trans more...stretching the center of the flexplate.. the flexplate is ruined.
I was told that my front pump is prob bad and needs checked out or replacing...I didnt know if this was sometthing I could do myself..or need to have a shop check it all out...

 

[SilverFoxbody]

The bolts contacting the TC and leaving dimples, and flex plate warp are true signs of TORQUE CONVERTER BALLONING....the converter was not designed for HIGH RPM.......This can also be aided by high heat.

Is the converter painted? If the paint is flaking, this is a sign of high temp and is not good. I would talk to the converter house again or advise Alan (dirtyd0g) here about the issue, as he is the converter guru.

However, when this happens it can do hurt some things.
-Input shaft wear, the balloning SUCKS the middle of the TC in and creates LESS room for the input shaft to rome, if you have a One PEICE setup, it should be fine, if you have a 2peice....you should pull the input shaft and inspect the tip where it rides on the output/dirrect drum.

For the most part, converter ballon will not hurt the pump, since the snout of the pump is SUCKING OUT of the trans due to centrifugal forces, accualy freeding up space for the pump gears to run.

If the pan has no flakes or debris....i would be confident that the pump is just fine. However, I can't argue with inspection if you want to do that.

You need to solve the cooler flow issue, possinly track how hot the ATF gets also...you need to stay under 190.

 

[wildstreet22]

I was told by the converter guys that it was Not ballooning.
The "dimples" in the flexplate are protruding towards the rear of the car.....I was told by the converter manufacturer that IF it ballooned, it would go foward toward the crank..therefore making the dimples protrude toward the motor (front of the car)..
Think they are giving me the run-around or what?
The paint did look like it was flaking somewhat to me....but they assured me the converter did not get hot and actually looked very good...so no heat stress....
Would a ballooning converter screw with the flow of fluid to the converter and cause the stall to go so high? I do have a 1 pc. shaft. and the fluid looked and smelled good when the tranny was pulled..

It seems to me, there was nothng wrong with my flexplate, and nothing wrong with the transmission or front pump (it was pumping out exactly the amount it should)... so what else is left? The converter?

 

[SilverFoxbody]

Well, pics would be nice
And lets start the subject over....why again are you pulling the trans down in the first place?

Here is sme physics on ballooning....picture the converter as the drag racing slicks you see on TV....they are one diameter and width sitting, but after 100MPH they are TALL and NARROW.

When the TC goes trough high rpm is starts to do the same thing...the middle sucks itself in and the diameter tries to expand. This forces the TC studs to the outer reaches of the flexplate holes and can cause them to dimple....or another attibute is the flexplate warps and makes a concave shape like a bowl. I have seen some flexes so warped that the starter doesn't work well anymore.

This effect pulls the TC tighter and tigher to the flex in the middle causing the flexplate bolts to accualy start engraving themselves into the torque converter......often you can pull a stock mustang converter and see perfect indentions of where the flexplate bolts were forced into it.

If this sounds like what you are seeing, then yes, the converter shop either didn't measure the damage or doesn't care.

Will it effect the stall, probably not, but I don't know the effects of ballooning on performance.

Contact dirtyd0g.

 

[wildstreet22]

I pulled the transmission apart because the stall was too high....it was planned to be 3500-4000 and was actually 5200 on a chasis dyno.
the max RPM the engine saw and will see is 6700.
The manufacturer wanted me to send them the external tranny cooler and converter to be checked out..
They said I should replace the cooler but as of now are awaiting results of pulling the front pump..its getting mic'd today or tomorrow.
when I dropped the trans. off this morning the shop did say the fluid that was leaking from it looked good and the trans. had Not been running hot... no heat stress....the converter guys said the same thing...
The flexplate does have indentions from where the nuts were pulled into the plate more.....but the converter looked fine.
I wish I could get pics but all my parts are at shops...All I can explain is it looks like either the converter altered and reshaped the flexplate so it would fit flush or the two were bolted together and somthing tried to pull them apart..streching the mounting surface where the studs from the converter go through the flexplate..
I PM'd Dirtydog this morning, still waiting for his response
Thanks Again

 

[SilverFoxbody]

converter nuts digging into the flex is fine...it is the flexplate bolts digging into the center of the converter I am talking about.

 

[HOTRODL]

First off are you doing this with the tranny in the car? Front pump removal is as simple as removal the bolts around the perimeter of the pump. Locating the two holes opposite of eachother that are threaded on the pump itself, then sticking short pieces of metal dowel or whatever you want to fit in there (i discourage bits). Then take your starter bolts and tighten them into the holes on the pump, alternate tightening them and it will pull itself out. The purpose of the metal pieces is for the bolts to have something to force themselves against to pull out on the pump so the pieces must be long enough to sit inside of the pump threads also. You can also use a slidehammer but the above method always works.

If you are doing this in the car you must be very very careful to not pull the internals out any with the pump. If you do the torrington bearing for the forward drum hub likes to fall out and then you will have some serious issues if you bolt it back together like this.

If it were me I would be doing it outside of the car and at the minimum replace the overdrive band... but I am not aware of the details of your situation or what mechanical abilities you posses. If you consider doing this I would recommend picking up an ATSG guide from your local tranny shop in order to get a better idea of what is going on. Myself and others could try and guide you along on here, but nothing is like having the book in front of you next to the transmission.

Make for certain that you replace all 3 seals on the pump. Converter...paper...o-ring.

Thank you, I figured it out now thanks to you.

 

[HOTRODL]

Thank you, I figured it out now thanks to you.

This is a tough build, 428 scj in a 60 t-bird aod and 411 gears. limited slip. This should be fun when I am done? noone made a torque converter for this with a sfi bellhousing. But I found one and now I have to add a solid one piece shaft to the mix and was having trouble gettin that pump to pop loose.

Thank you, I figured it out now thanks to you.

 

[HOTRODL]

This is a tough build, 428 scj in a 60 t-bird aod and 411 gears. limited slip. This should be fun when I am done? noone made a torque converter for this with a sfi bellhousing. But I found one and now I have to add a solid one piece shaft to the mix and was having trouble gettin that pump to pop loose.

I was wondering if I screweda long bolt into that hole won't it push the pump loose?