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I couldn’t tell you what the cam specs were in that 306 other than the fact it was a custom cam made by Erson. The cam in my car now is .600 intake and exhaust. Not sure dog bones will allow the lifters to travel that far.
depends on the cam core size, the smaller the cam core, the farther down the lifter sits in the bore, allowing more lift before the dogbone would be the limiting factor
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Some NOS composite lifter buckets are on the way. Thanks for the eBay tip, woody.

Are those sealed power lifters identical to R302H lifters? I need one new one since my last one resembles a flat tire.

Also for inquiring minds. I’ve used both the dog bones and aluminum one piece rail per side (not sure when they put those in 5.0s but it came from one of my old engines, any input on this woody?), and my cams have never lifted them from the lifter bore. Keep in mind valve lift is not equal to lifter lift. My current cam is a Lunati core from Ed C with .60X lift and I beat it like it owed me money to 6700.

Trying these trays means I’ll be able to say I’ve tried every lifter alignment method short of link bars, LOL!
 

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Discussion Starter #44
I will look in my old photos, it was a bronze colored rail (oil soaked aluminum) that sat, one per side, held down by the spider tray, that had square sections missing which is what kept the lifters straight. 8 square holes per rail. Very light in weight.

In other news, got the borescope down in the lifter bore and it appears my issues are far worse than just a spun lifter. The material from the lifter wheel wedged itself in the gap between the bearing & cam lobe, and it wrapped around that small gap section (the one I posted a picture of with the arrow). It is legitimately wrapped 2/3rds around the camshaft in that little gap, I can jiggle it slightly with my pinky in the lifter bore which tells me it was there long enough to wear, otherwise it would be tight like it was welded. I am unaware of how I am even going to get my cam out if this metal catches between the cam lobe and the hole where the bearing sits. Next steps will be planning a weekend to borrow my buddy's garage to tear it apart. I also know I have metal shavings in every part of the engine now.

Pics to show, not great quality ($20 scope from Amazon) but the shiny part reflecting the light from the camera is material from the lifter wheel. The metal on bottom (slightly less reflective section) is the base circle of the cam, lobe is facing other way. I have no idea how the cam lobe isn't chewed down to a nub, Lunati must use some good [email protected] in their cam cores.

rollerwheelinblock2.jpg
rollerwheelinblock.jpg


Honestly at a crossroads if I want to screw with the stock block anymore, maybe time to part out the engine and plan a build that can hold more power. Stock block is what kept me limited with my RPM and power goals, anyway. This was a major blow to the gearhead in me as we're looking at houses at the moment and the car fund is low. Such is life!
 

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Kinda sad to see such an impressive stock block engine go down like that. But from the destruction something cool will surely rise.

I may buy a set of the retainers just to have a set "in stock".
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Kinda sad to see such an impressive stock block engine go down like that. But from the destruction something cool will surely rise.

I may buy a set of the retainers just to have a set "in stock".
I’m going to do my due diligence before giving up, this block has been good to me, but I was on the fence already regarding moving past a stock block. I’d hate for the block to split and take out my heads, cam, lifters, pushrods, anything else in its path in the process. We shall see.

If I need to move on then I’ll start a pros and cons list for 351w vs 8.2 SHP and see what the most logical solution is.
 

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I'd be carful with those plastic dog bones especially with high lift cams as they may bottom out.
It can happen with metal dog bones too but with plastic, if one lifter pushes up it puts all 4 in a off-center condition.
Metal dog bones are slightly more forgiving if they get lifted.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I'd be carful with those plastic dog bones especially with high lift cams as they may bottom out.
It can happen with metal dog bones too but with plastic, if one lifter pushes up it puts all 4 in a off-center condition.
Metal dog bones are slightly more forgiving if they get lifted.
I’m holding a dogbone in my hand right now and after analyzing the composite trays in all the pictures I’ve seen, I am not sure how it could possibly have less clearance vertically than the dogbone. I’ll be able to compare them head to head here in a couple days when I get the trays but the idea of the composite trays and the way it collects the lifter, seems like a more reliably engineered solution.
 

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If you look at pictures # 3 and #5, there is a ledge that the lifter will contact.. My "precise" measurements ( with a piece of wire and a tape measure) show that to be appx a tick under 3/4"from the bottom "corner" ( you can see the four corners are not flush) to where the lifter would contact the top....

I cannot set one in my engine block ( the block is at the machine shop) but I "ASSUME" after the lifter tray is installed the amount of lifter travel would be LESS than my measurement before it would contact the top of this "tray"...... These lifter trays look worn out ( like the entire engine did) I presume from too few oil changes and LOTS of miles... But in saying that, 22 years later it looks like these did the job without a failure... I will not reuse these moving forward......
I hope this helps.....
 

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I’m holding a dogbone in my hand right now and after analyzing the composite trays in all the pictures I’ve seen, I am not sure how it could possibly have less clearance vertically than the dogbone. I’ll be able to compare them head to head here in a couple days when I get the trays but the idea of the composite trays and the way it collects the lifter, seems like a more reliably engineered solution.
Well..... if it wasn't better in some way, Ford wouldn't have invested the time and money to design them.
 

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I haven't personally used the plastic lifter tray setup, but have seen them used in other builds and never heard of a failure with them. I guess it wouldn't be my cup of tea having a fiber loaded plastic part like that in a critical application. I still would be running the dog bone setup myself if I didn't end up exceeding the max lift limit.
 

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If Ford took the time to investigate and engineer these and then durability test them and then manufacture and install them on thousands and thousands, hundreds of thousands probably, of production engines over 4 or 5 years of production and there aren't reports of issues tied to them all over the internet, it'd be safe to say they do there job well.
 

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Well..... if it wasn't better in some way, Ford wouldn't have invested the time and money to design them.
I don't have the experience to compare the pros and cons of the metal dogbone vs plastic tray lifter guides but I would like to offer the following.

"better in some way" from Ford's perspective could very well mean cheaper to produce with "acceptable" service life. I wouldn't automatically assume that a newer design is better performing but of course it may very well be better performing.
 

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I don't have the experience to compare the pros and cons of the metal dogbone vs plastic tray lifter guides but I would like to offer the following.

"better in some way" from Ford's perspective could very well mean cheaper to produce with "acceptable" service life. I wouldn't automatically assume that a newer design is better performing but of course it may very well be better performing.
If metal dog bones have been known to turn and cause failure and these have not. That's better in my book.
 

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Based on what I see as lack of maintenance, LONG durations between oil changes, what looks like Original spark plugs and being 22 years old, my lifter tray guides help up pretty darn good... I have changed plans after reading this and fooling with my plastic guides, to use new ones in the " stockish" build I am planning instead of switching to dog bones
 

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Discussion Starter #59
NOS trays came in today. The lifter fits much more tightly in the tray than the dog bone, almost like it has to be pushed up and down a few times before it loosens up a bit.

The contact surface of the tray touching the lifter at full lift looks to be about triple the contact surface the dogbone has.

I’ll throw up some pictures tomorrow. Off topic but anyone have a spare lifter they wanna sell? I want a full set and right now I have 15 good ones. The R302H style.
 
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